welcome back to Sputnik the chilcott
inquiry into Britain's involvement in
the disastrous invasion of Iraq began
four whole years ago and heard its last
witness two years ago but since then
silence the Dogg at chilcott refuses to
publish unless we can see what he's
already seen of the telephone and other
electronic traffic between former Prime
Minister Tony Blair and George W bush 10
Downing Street simply refuses and Under
Pressure blams the White House for its
refusal I went down to as Road in London
a mainly Arab area and I asked the
people there how they feel about the
refusal well let's take a look even if
they put it published well they remove
the most important Keys maybe without
being anybody knows and even if the
public knows now everything has gone 10
years now like about everything you know
because I think you know it's like a
gamey play as we they doing with us in
Egypt as well you know because I don't
think they care about the people they
care about themselves we can't find the
two no way it's difficult to find the
two the two it mean to take America to
the court that's all her war against
this he not
allowed our next guest the right
honorable David Davis PC MP almost was
the leader of the conservative party if
he had been I'd be sitting here now
interviewing him in Downing Street they
chose the wrong man alas but he's still
a real power in the land and a power in
Parliament which explains why he's got
this fantastic office by the river temps
I wanted to talk to him about the impass
over the chilcott inquiry David Davis
thanks for joining us on Sputnik I
described the
membership of the chil Cott enquiry as a
parade of establishment flunkies who
were likely to throw the case against
the Blair and brown governments uh on
the war it seems I may have been wrong
they've stuck at their task quite
doggedly haven't they yes they have and
uh chilcott I mean you you might have
had some reason because he's been
involved in all the establishment
inquiries down the years uh and he's
been a very Trusted Man by the British
establishment but but he's he's been
very honest and determined about this
and I think it's determination actually
that counts more than anything else so
yeah I think when they eventually get it
published it will be a Humdinger of a
report but there's a big question mark
over the way for all the great
achievements that you have you're not
really a part of the British
establishment but you know it um so why
is the establishment proving so
difficult over the issue of the
documents that chil Cott says he needs
before he can publish after all this is
deeply embarrassing to set up A7 million
pound public inquiry and then have it
unable to publish its report because of
what will be seen in the country in the
world as a coverup yeah that's
absolutely right and the when you
started out down the route of having an
inquiry like this it is assumed they
will see all of the secret information
and publish that which they think is
necessary the whole point of having
someone like chilcott in charge of the
inquiry is he is the sort of person you
think the establishment trust to make
decisions on what ought to be able to be
put in the public domain so it's an
assumption right at the beginning that
you can publish things that affected the
decision on the war and that includes
things like conversations between Tony
Blair and his cabinet between the
various ministers between Tony Blair and
the Allies most notably George Bush so
those were all written into the remit on
day one so what's happened is all of a
sudden the various members of St for
different reasons I think are hiding
behind a whole series of conventions
which once they normally apply shouldn't
apply to an inquiry into a war the
permanent secretary who is in the name
of the cabinet one presumes blocking the
release of these documents in the report
was of course the uh right-and man of Mr
Blair at the time of the war is he
covering up for Mr Blair or covering up
for himself or is he just exercising
some sympathy for people he was near at
the time we actually don't know but the
simple truth is that under normal
circumstances the British government
someone like that would be excluded from
the decision you if you're a minister
and somebody brings you a decision which
relates to your personal interest you
give it to somebody else to make the
decision you don't make it yourself you
don't you know let's say I had a farm
and there was a decision made about my
farm I was wouldn't be allowed to make
it i' get somebody else to do and this
is this is more than a farm this is the
whole farm that uh that uh Haywood is
making this decision over so he
shouldn't be allowed to make decision
that's the first thing to say secondly
the rules he's using he's talking about
you know we we can't expose
conversations between heads of
government and so on well if you if
you're not going to expose those rules
why did you start this in the first
place because you cannot understand why
a war starts unless you hear
the views of decision makers so you've
got both the motive the man and the
excuse all wrong every single part of
this is wrong now you got your ear
pretty close to the ground what do you
think in the correspondence and the
record of telephone calls that are being
refused well I don't know what's in but
what what I do know is the questions
they have to answer why they sensitive I
mean firstly did Tony Blair give
undertakings
before he came to Parliament in other
words that he commit Britain before
Parliament uh had its say because in
this day and age as you and I uh uh took
a part in over the Syrian episode in
this day and age Parliament is now
accepted has to decide not on Wars that
are reactions to being invaded But
discretionary Wars this Wars that you
decide on has to be done by Parliament
now if Blair made the decision
beforehand that's acutely embarrassing
both for Blair and his whole government
and of course for the Americans uh
secondly uh well just before you go on
that would mean that they had lied to
the house of course yeah well which a
hanging uh offense in this place is a
hanging
offense metaphorically speaking yes we
don't do hanging in Britain anymore I
know the killing of Tony blow is an
interest to you but but uh but so
metaphorically that is a hanging offense
uh secondly of course there's the other
possible light of the house which is the
basis of the evidence what is now known
in Britain as the dodgey dossier the the
intelligence reports which were put
together in a sort of glossed up uh
pamphlet uh implying that uh Saddam had
weapons of mass destruction which were a
threat to Britain I mean there was this
idea of he could Marshall them at 45
minutes notice considerable and hit our
bases in cypess hit our bases and so on
so all of those things but they two lies
straight away you know then there are
questions of the acttion execution of
the war I mean I know from my own
experience and contacts uh around the
British military establishment that in
the runup to the war there were serious
concerns amongst the British officer
class if you like about how we were
proposing to deal with the day after the
conflict you know what was going to
happen to the rebuilding of uh of Iraq
what was going to happen to the
government of Iraq what was going to
happen to make sure that the Iraqi
people did not suffer as in that they
ended up suffering the huge post-war
traumas now that was an area where
clearly some decisions must or should
have been made and one presumes must
have been made how were those decisions
made how did we go into a war without
knowing what the outcome will be so
there's a whole series of very very
embarrassing questions to answer I don't
know the answer to those questions but I
suspect since we've run into this brick
wall I suspect they're not the ones that
Mr Blair would like to see now you are a
former military man you are a former
minister in the foreign office you have
occupied commanding Heights in British
government and you're still a pretty
heavyweight senior guy how therefore
would you calibrate how would you
describe the scale of the foreign policy
disaster in my view and in the view of
the great majority of people The
Invasion and occupation of Iraq it's one
of the biggest
postwar disasters um I mean I voted for
it let's understand it's right up front
I voted for it because I was told and I
believed the prime minister of to day
one assumes the Prime Minister doesn't
lie to the House of Commons that this
was a strategic necessity that it was a
threat that we had to deal with it we
were lied to on that I'm quite sure that
was not true so um so it's a massive
mistake and it's colored all sorts of
it's colored our entire relationship
with the Muslim world uh and the Middle
East destabilized an important part A
massively important part of the Middle
East it's caused most of all it's caused
huge numbers of deaths uh huge numbers
of deaths and uh all those things and to
no real purpose I mean there is a a mild
purpose but not a not a not a purpose
that justifies that sort of uh um wides
widescale killing so it's a major major
uh mistake much worse than sews which
was viewed a huge strategic error
previous that led to the fall of a prime
minister resignation of prime minister
so a huge mistake and one which will
color British foreign policy and I think
American foreign policy for a very very
long time into the future killed
something else too didn't it it killed
the essential credibility of the
political class in Britain and in the
United States since Iraq very few people
believe what they're told officially uh
Claude Coburn in the 1930s once said
that nothing is true and until it's been
officially denied uh nowadays most
people don't really believe and this is
not a party point I know you're a
conservative uh but nobody again
there'll be no glad confident morning
again yeah there's always been a healthy
suspicion in Britain of the political
class and I rather approve of that
frankly but uh it's it's it's killed
even the political class's own belief in
itself I mean again to to come back to
the Syrian debate which we both took
part in one of the reasons that our side
the anti-war side one was because nobody
was willing to take on trust a simple
statement from the government that this
was necessary you know the cloud of Iraq
hung over that whole debate it
completely colored the the the the whole
debate and and as a result we decided in
my view the right decision we decided
not to do anything and indeed actually
for Britain not to legitimize an
American assault which is what it was
really about and and truthfully actually
uh AR involvement in Iraq I know we
committed soldiers and I know we had
hundreds of deaths um and we had some
material defeats as well in terms of our
military strategy but what we were doing
was
legitimizing uh an American attack um
and I think that whole concept of
Britain being the people who say well
this isn't just a bit of American
imperialism this is a really necessary
action um is gone completely gone David
Davis thanks for joining us on Sputnik
my pleasure
wow they'll certainly be watching that
interview more than once in Downing
Street this weekend now this is the
point in the show where we listen to
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